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Am 03.09.2010 07:07, schrieb david:

quoted text
> Hartmut Noack wrote:

>> Am 02.09.2010 08:47, schrieb david:

>>> Hartmut Noack wrote:

>>>

>>>> Atrocities and genocide are no inventions of the modern times: in

>>>> reverse! In modern times most cultures have learned to name things

>>>> atrocities, that were known as "perfectly normal" or even "heroic

>>>> deeds" in ancient times.

>>>

>>> What Rome did to Carthage after conquering it would certainly be

>>> considered genocide by modern UN thought. Slaughter the population,

>>> enslave the few survivors, transport them away from their country.

>>> Demolish the city-state. Sow the soil with salt so it couldn't be used

>>> to supply food. Rome did not intend Carthage to ever rise again.

>>>

>>> And the Roman general who destroyed Carthage was rewarded very highly.

>>>

>> He cited Homer in greek on the smoking ruins and he was given the name

>> Africanus to honor him.

>>

>> But the romans usually avoided genocide. They where out to conquer

>> peoples to make them pay taxes.

>

> They usually were. But if they were really frightened of the other

> people, they wiped them out. Carthage was the biggest threat Rome faced

> until the massed non-Roman peoples around the decaying empire started

> moving in.

>

>> There are many other candidates though, from the Saxons of the 4th

>> century to the Mongol storm of the 12th to the Nazis here in Germany

>> in the beginning of the 20ths century.

>> All *before* mind-crushing popmusic with "subliminal messages" emerged

>> to drive everyone "mad with sex and violence".

>>

>> NO! Rock/pop music with all its wildness, its unpredictability and its

>> absence of formal written rules is a cultural sign for more humanity,

>> more freedom and more self-awareness.

>

> I think there's a biochemichal/neurological contribution in today's

> times. Many many people struggle with impulse and anger control issues,

> violent impulses, etc. These are people born and raised in the

> very-polluted environment modern cities offer.

Contribution: maybe. But no biochemichal/neurological agents have

effects that can be compared with social/socio-cultural issues. If you

want to find out what kid will grow up to become a violent criminal or

develop other self-destructive lifestyles you have zero chance if you

only know if the kid lives in the center of a modern western metropolis

or in a little village.
You can whatsoever say with a very good certainty if the kid will go

astray, if you know the income of its parents.
A few years ago some 3 kids from a small village here in Germany decided

to torture one of their school-mates to death. They had constructed a

crude racist "reason" to pick the poor fellow because they never learned

to accept differnce among people.

These kids were never exposed to the stress-factors you mention here.

They lived a life in an idyllic village -- but their parents were

low-income workers or unemployed.
> Their nervous systems are

quoted text
> loaded with accumulated lead and other heavy metals, exposure to toxic

> industrial chemicals, born to drug-abusing parents, etc. (Plus the

> generally-higher stress level that pervades modern culture.) So if

> you're a person with such problems - the "mad with sex and violence"

> music maybe exactly what appeals to you.

>

1.) I do not see anything wrong with art that celebrates sexuality. If

it is art indeed, I mean. That is: if sex is only the spice to promote

the sales of a product, the whole thing is corrupt. But if we talk about

free arts here, sex is perfectly OK.
2.) Art is never violent, it can describe or symbolize violence and if

this is done right, I do not see a problem here either.
Good art can have an aspect of catharsis - if a person feels like

listening to music that expresses extreme feelings, hate, destruction,

malevolence.  Then the reason is never the mere availability of such

works of art but always stress that comes from the real world.
Things like: "If you fail in school you gonna end up being an unemployed

outcast."

or: "If you want to be in the team, stop talking about communist

nonsense like payment for overtime and show us your happy face."
make people agressive, desperate, violent. Not music of any kind.
Some of those, who are stressed like this find relief and catharsis in

Death Metal or Industrial Electronics or Punkrock. This supports

self-respect and may even lead to a development of the personality that

can cope with such real-world problems in a adeaqaute way.
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