Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement

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To: Alan Russell <ajrussellaudio@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 10:25 pm

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On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Alan Russell wrote:

> Also, let's not kid ourselves on - Bitwig is not a Linux app, it is a

Going to pick on you, but you are far from the only person to have these
thoughts(Including me not to long ago)...

Since when does Platform/OS==SoftwareRunningOnPlatform/OS?

If you are referring to the ecosystem that includes the community, then I
would argue that includes far more than just Linux as a platform. If you
are referring to the OS, then it shouldn't make any difference what other
OSes this software runs on or doesn't.

In other words, what makes any software 'Linux Software' by your
definition? Is it that it is Open Source? Open Source is far more than
just Linux. Is it that it runs on Linux? Well Bitwig apparently runs on
Linux (Supposedly) as do many other closed source programs.

Linux is far more than just audio software in general. Audio Software is
also far more than what you will find on Linux. I am on Linux because I
prefer it as a platform to run my software on. I was running Ardour and
Mixbus on OS X full time for many years (And before that on Linux as well)
but have switched back to Linux not because of the individual software on
Linux, but because of the platform. Believe me it literally cost me
thousands to do so in lost plugins etc. Appropriate tools to do what I get
paid to do professionally and make my living off of is what forced me onto
OS X . And indeed for some things i am still forced to use OS X or even a
VM of Windows, System Design Modeling and Prediction, DSP
programming(Speaker processing, etc.), System Tuning, etc. all still don't
have the needed tools available on Linux to match what I need to do and the
speed I need to do it in in order to continue being paid. But for audio
production work, the tools are now at a point on Linux that I feel I can
come back and even after having lost some plugins that have no replacement
on Linux natively, lost access to hardware, and other tools, still
accomplish my work in at least a comparable amount of time to allow me to
continue to work and get paid.

Does this mean I don't care about open source? Not at all, if I didn't I
would probably have stayed on OS X with Logic, DP, PT, or one of the many
other solutions. This is entirely to point out that Linux as the Platform,
Open Source as the Ecosystem, and Software as the Tools are three
completely different topics, and should be treated as such. As a result I
am probably on the same side as Alexandre and see this coming to Linux not
as a bad thing that will destroy the ecosystem. Just that the ecosystem
will change. How? Who knows, but we will find out.

Seablade

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On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Alan Ru=
ssell <ajr=
ussellaudio@gmail.com
> wrote:
Also, let's not kid ourselves on - Bitwig is not a Linux app, it is a
cross-platform app that happens to support Linux. No one is going to
install Ubuntu just to run Bitwig. It's not going to bring anyone over<=
br>
to Linux, neither did Renoise or energyXT, both cross-platform
closed-source commercial apps on Linux. It's just going to be
available to those who want to run it on Linux, because they make
music on Linux already. Take it from a recent convert - we Win/Mac
users aren't stupid, we know that Linux is all about the FLOSS. It'=
s
stuff unique to Linux like JACK that is going to bring users over, not
the stuff that we can install anyway.
Going to pick on you, but you are far from the o=
nly person to have these thoughts(Including me not to long ago)...S=
ince when does Platform/OS=3D=3DSoftwareRunningOnPlatform/OS?If you=
are referring to the ecosystem that includes the community, then I would a=
rgue that includes far more than just Linux as a platform.=A0 If you are re=
ferring to the OS, then it shouldn't make any difference what other OSe=
s this software runs on or doesn't.
In other words, what makes any software 'Linux Software' by you=
r definition?=A0 Is it that it is Open Source?=A0 Open Source is far more t=
han just Linux.=A0 Is it that it runs on Linux?=A0 Well Bitwig apparently r=
uns on Linux (Supposedly) as do many other closed source programs.
Linux is far more than just audio software in general.=A0 Audio Softwar=
e is also far more than what you will find on Linux.=A0 I am on Linux becau=
se I prefer it as a platform to run my software on.=A0 I was running Ardour=
and Mixbus on OS X full time for many years (And before that on Linux as w=
ell) but have switched back to Linux not because of the individual software=
on Linux, but because of the platform.=A0 Believe me it literally cost me =
thousands to do so in lost plugins etc.=A0 Appropriate tools to do what I g=
et paid to do professionally and make my living off of is what forced me on=
to OS X .=A0 And indeed for some things i am still forced to use OS X or ev=
en a VM of Windows, System Design Modeling and Prediction, DSP programming(=
Speaker processing, etc.), System Tuning, etc. all still don't have the=
needed tools available on Linux to match what I need to do and the speed I=
need to do it in in order to continue being paid.=A0 But for audio product=
ion work, the tools are now at a point on Linux that I feel I can come back=
and even after having lost some plugins that have no replacement on Linux =
natively, lost access to hardware, and other tools, still accomplish my wor=
k in at least a comparable amount of time to allow me to continue to work a=
nd get paid.
Does this mean I don't care about open source?=A0 Not at all, if I =
didn't I would probably have stayed on OS X with Logic, DP, PT, or one =
of the many other solutions.=A0 This is entirely to point out that Linux as=
the Platform, Open Source as the Ecosystem, and Software as the Tools are =
three completely different topics, and should be treated as such.=A0 As a r=
esult I am probably on the same side as Alexandre and see this coming to Li=
nux not as a bad thing that will destroy the ecosystem.=A0 Just that the ec=
osystem will change.=A0 How?=A0 Who knows, but we will find out.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Seablade

--e89a8f3bad474d638804b69892d3--

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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] bitwig announcement, Renato, (Fri Jan 13, 4:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Jeremy Jongepier, (Sat Jan 14, 7:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Nils, (Sun Jan 15, 1:35 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Jeremy Jongepier, (Sun Jan 15, 12:11 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Renato, (Sun Jan 15, 5:38 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Jan 15, 1:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Rustom Mody, (Fri Jan 20, 9:03 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, gene heskett, (Fri Jan 20, 5:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Atte André Jensen, (Fri Jan 20, 7:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, david, (Fri Jan 20, 7:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, gene heskett, (Fri Jan 20, 7:38 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, hermann, (Fri Jan 20, 9:26 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Hartmut Noack, (Mon Jan 16, 12:03 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Jeremy Jongepier, (Sun Jan 15, 2:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Folderol, (Sun Jan 15, 5:11 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Jan 15, 2:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Mon Jan 16, 12:46 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Jeremy Jongepier, (Mon Jan 16, 3:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, thijs van severen, (Mon Jan 16, 3:21 pm)
[LAU] [OT] Re: bitwig announcement, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Jan 16, 12:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] [OT] Re: bitwig announcement, Jeremy Jongepier, (Mon Jan 16, 2:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] [OT] Re: bitwig announcement, david, (Tue Jan 17, 9:02 am)
Re: [LAU] [OT] Re: bitwig announcement, Hartmut Noack, (Tue Jan 17, 10:06 am)
Re: [LAU] [OT] Re: bitwig announcement, James Morris, (Tue Jan 17, 10:14 am)
Re: [LAU] [OT] Re: bitwig announcement, Rui Nuno Capela, (Mon Jan 16, 4:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] [OT] Re: bitwig announcement, Lorenzo Sutton, (Mon Jan 16, 1:49 pm)
Re: [LAU] [OT] Re: bitwig announcement, gene heskett, (Mon Jan 16, 4:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, hermann, (Sun Jan 15, 1:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Mon Jan 16, 12:24 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Harry van Haaren, (Tue Jan 17, 12:52 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, hermann, (Mon Jan 16, 1:28 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Mon Jan 16, 1:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Jan 15, 2:07 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, James Morris, (Sun Jan 15, 2:33 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Jan 15, 2:43 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, James Morris, (Sun Jan 15, 4:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Jan 15, 4:28 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, James Morris, (Sun Jan 15, 5:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Jan 15, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, James Morris, (Sun Jan 15, 5:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Jan 15, 6:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alan Russell, (Sun Jan 15, 6:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Jan 15, 10:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alan Russell, (Sun Jan 15, 11:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Jan 16, 1:30 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Louigi Verona, (Mon Jan 16, 8:48 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, david, (Tue Jan 17, 8:57 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Jan 17, 1:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Atte André Jensen, (Wed Jan 18, 7:37 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, david, (Wed Jan 18, 8:37 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, david, (Wed Jan 18, 6:52 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Wed Jan 18, 9:44 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, david, (Wed Jan 18, 6:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, thijs van severen, (Mon Jan 16, 9:10 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Paul Davis, (Sun Jan 15, 11:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Jan 16, 10:10 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Mon Jan 16, 12:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Mon Jan 16, 11:43 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Mon Jan 16, 3:00 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Mon Jan 16, 7:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, James Stone, (Mon Jan 16, 10:22 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, James Stone, (Mon Jan 16, 10:28 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, hermann, (Mon Jan 16, 10:49 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Dave Phillips, (Mon Jan 16, 10:57 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Paul Davis, (Sun Jan 15, 8:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, James Morris, (Sun Jan 15, 4:46 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, hermann, (Sun Jan 15, 2:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Jan 15, 2:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Dave Phillips, (Sun Jan 15, 3:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Jan 15, 4:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Renato, (Sat Jan 14, 10:45 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Sebastian Moors, (Sun Jan 15, 8:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, David Baron, (Mon Jan 16, 9:09 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, david, (Tue Jan 17, 8:44 am)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Ross Hamblin, (Sun Jan 15, 11:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Dave Phillips, (Fri Jan 13, 11:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] bitwig announcement, Louigi Verona, (Fri Jan 13, 7:14 pm)