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On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Funs Seelen  wrote:
> Hello,

quoted text
> I'm new to this list. This topic immediately got my attention because of

> some surprising statements related to music theory that were posed.

>

>

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:

>

>>

>> I recently got into an argument (on the python list so more OT there than

>> here :-) ) about whether a B# is the same  as C.  If we allow that they may

>> not always be the same then we have a case where the

>> theory-of-musical-harmony (may be) breaking.

>>

>>

> I don't understand what you mean with "theory-of-musical-harmony". Not

> intended to repeat an earlier discussion on another list, but C and B# are

> definitely not the same.

Yes That is what I was saying (on that list)

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-July/626135.html
This was in response to the statement that there is no B# except when its C

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-July/626127.html

and suggesting that a 12-tone (chromatic?) scale is the best foundation for

music
They happen to represent the same frequency in equal temperament but that's

quoted text
> all. On keyboards with 12 fixed pitches per octave (like a piano) they will

> also be represented by the same key, whether tempered equal, according to

> Werckmeister's theories or else. However theoretically they are different

> notes. That's one big part of the problem piano tuners have to deal with.

> Very recently I published an external for Pure Data (

> http://student-kmt.hku.nl/~funs/software.html) that translates midi notes

> to frequency with a variable semitone and a settable modulation (set of

> notes to be represented by the 12 keys). One of its effects is that B# and

> C represent a different frequency unless a semitone is exactly set to half

> a whole tone (like in equal temperament, equal division in 12). I don't

> feel anything breaking in any case, or I might have understood you wrong.

>

> --Funs

>

As I understand it the foundation of almost all (western) music is the

tempered scale and tempering comes about by amortizing the pythagorean

comma so that we dont 'notice' it.
The pythagorean comma is (by definition??) the gap between B# and C where

by B#  means the 12th in a circle of perfect fifths starting at C.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Funs S=

eelen <funsseelen@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,I'm new to this list. This topic immediately got my attention=

 because of some surprising statements related to music theory that were po=

sed.On Thu, Jul 12, 20=

12 at 5:42 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote=

:
I recent=

ly got into an argument (on the python list so more OT there than here :-) =

) about whether a B# is the same=A0 as C.=A0 If we allow that they may not =

always be the same then we have a case where the theory-of-musical-harmony =

(may be) breaking.
I don't understand what yo=

u mean with "theory-of-musical-harmony". Not intended to repeat a=

n earlier discussion on another list, but C and B# are definitely not the s=

ame.

Yes That is what I was saying (on that list)http://mail.py=

thon.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-July/626135.html This was i=

n response to the statement that there is no B# except when its C

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-July/626127.html<=

br>and suggesting that a 12-tone (chromatic?) scale is the best foundation =

for music

They happen=

 to represent the same frequency in equal temperament but that's all. O=

n keyboards with 12 fixed pitches per octave (like a piano) they will also =

be represented by the same key, whether tempered equal, according to Werckm=

eister's theories or else. However theoretically they are different not=

es. That's one big part of the problem piano tuners have to deal with. =

Very recently I published an external for Pure Data (http://student-kmt.=

hku.nl/~funs/software.html) that translates midi notes to frequency wit=

h a variable semitone and a settable modulation (set of notes to be represe=

nted by the 12 keys). One of its effects is that B# and C represent a diffe=

rent frequency unless a semitone is exactly set to half a whole tone (like =

in equal temperament, equal division in 12). I don't feel anything brea=

king in any case, or I might have understood you wrong.
--Funs

As I understand it the foundation of a=

lmost all (western) music is the=20

tempered scale and tempering comes about by amortizing the pythagorean=20

comma so that we dont 'notice' it.
The pythagorean comma is (by definition??) the gap between B# and C=20

where by B#=A0 means the 12th in a circle of perfect fifths starting at C. =

See http=

://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma
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